Talk:Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion not met Supporting materials: criterion not met

This article is supported by the aerospace biography project.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Netherlands

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.NetherlandsWikipedia:WikiProject NetherlandsTemplate:WikiProject NetherlandsNetherlands articles

Um[edit]

This record neglects to say how Mr van Zanten actually *died*.

Randal Oulton (talk) 08:06, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

          Plane crash.Johnnytucf (talk) 14:05, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Off topic page[edit]

Is that page about Captain Van Zanten or about Tenerife Disaster? About Van Zanten there are a few informations, but about the accident there are a lot! Look at italian version of this article on italian Wiki, it's perfect. --79.16.195.56 (talk) 13:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:KLM Magazine that contains Captain Jacob Veldhuyzen Van Zanten.jpg[edit]

The image Image:KLM Magazine that contains Captain Jacob Veldhuyzen Van Zanten.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good day. I just found the same KLM advert, but in a way higher quality, so maybe it's possible to replace the photo? The old one is blurry and of very poor quality! Is there a way to change the photos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.111.48.146 (talk) 18:19, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with references[edit]

I have recently had the Dutch article, "Wie was Veldhuyzen van Zanten?" translated into English. It doesn't contain the statement that Van Zanten was 'Mr. KLM' for which there is a citation in the text. SAHBfan (talk) 19:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Van Zanten's character[edit]

The Dutch article "Wie was Veldhuyzen van Zanten?" does contain is some positive quotes from collegues about Van Zantens character. In addition, Jan Bartelski gives an assesment of Van Zanten's character in his book 'Air Disasters'. There is also a summary of VZ demeanour prior to the Tenerife Disaster taken from witness statements at the airport. All of these quotes present the Captain in a positive way. The NOVA documentary, 'Crash of the Century' is quite the opposite, portraying Van Zanten as Arrogant, egotistical and difficult to work with. They make a very firm case that this was fundamental to the cause of the Tenerife Crash. For this reason it would seem that verifiable quotes about Van Zanten's character from collegues and witnesses are relevent to the article and should maybe be included? SAHBfan (talk) 19:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Crash of the Century distorts the facts (and the character of Van Zanten) to make things more dramatic. --95.233.192.37 (talk) 14:33, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely right it does! It is a disaster movie posing as a documentary, this is why I think evidence supporting a more balanced view of Van Zanten's character is relevent to the article. SAHBfan (talk) 07:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's very obvious "Crash Of The Century" is a very biased movie, which is full with one-sided propaganda, cheap drama and distortion of facts. I read interviews with people who knew him in real life, and all of them describe him as a nice and a calm person, who was very easy and pleasant to work with. Unfortunately, way too many people believe everything that's showed in the movie is true and took place in reality. But I'm pretty sure van Zanten was a good person, who unfortunately made a fatal mistake. That's the way life is: sometimes, beautiful, intelligent and good people make ugly, stupid and bad mistakes! User:Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.111.48.146 (talk) 22:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If he was such a "Lovely person" then how come when F/E Schreuder asked if the Clipper was clear, he declared in a Sarcastic tone "Oh yes" what a lovely guy for disbelieving his Crew and killing everyone. He was a real hero! OH WAIT HE CAUSED A DAMN CATASTROPHE AND KILLED 380-ish PEOPLE! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.137.254 (talk) 14:25, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, how lovely: another clueless comment from a troll who never even bothered to look for a reliable information! Stop believing in stupid TV shows and use your brain for once! — Preceding unsigned comment added by NaturalHeaven1979 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You don't consider a cockpit voice recorder to be reliable information? Dahmer's Refrigerator (talk) 04:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is no CVR which proves that vZ was rude, abusive or agressive towards his colleagues. Those myths were developed by low-quality pseudo-documentaries (created by Americans/Canadians), and those cannot be used as a reliable source. Shame there are adult people who blindly believe everything they see or hear on a TV.

No, but there is a CVR which proves him having sarcastically said “Oh, yes!” when queried over message clearing telling that the other 747 was still on the runway.T v x1 14:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sarcastically? Why do you make things up? This expression was never mentioned anywhere. Maybe you confuse it with "empatically"? And besides that: he did not hear the warning about the other plane on the runway, because this message was distorted due to a heterodyne.

This information has been known for 45 years, yet, some people still spread lies. 80.162.40.150 (talk) 21:05, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge[edit]

I propose merging this to the main article; other than the crash the subject wasn't really notable. --76.117.164.50 (talk) 15:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

unneccesary new section[edit]

A new section has been added discussing the Tenerife disaster. Is this needed here at all? These issues are discussed in the article on Tenerife, I can't see why they need to be repeated here.

Also, they contain a great deal of opinion and speculation and not a lot of references.

I suggest this section is not required and should be removed. 88.107.34.195 (talk) 12:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your suggestion is not in accordance with our guidelines: the Tenerife disaster is the very reason this captain is notable. The section you speak of is properly verified and very short compared to a more complete version; it focuses only on the captain's role. You are welcome to add more references, of course. Drmies (talk) 19:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I Agree; the only reason I visited this page was to get some background information on the guy who caused the worst airline disaster in history.Johnnytucf (talk) 14:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, there's not much information about vZ: we know he was a Protestant (he supported a political party named SGP), married with two children, lived in Sassenheim and liked fast cars: he was just like millions of other men worldwide. If it wasn't for this disaster, nobody would ever know anything about him. Just because he modelled for one single KLM advert does not make him a celebrity (I heard rumours that he was a huge star among pilots and was pretty much KLM' poster-boy, but those rumours turned out to be one huge hoax: he only participated in one campagne, and his name is not even mentioned! I own an authentic copy of this ad and can swear it has nothing to do with vZ as a person: the ad is about KLM and Netherlands as a tourist destination. He was chosen to be the "model" because he was working mostly as an instructor and did not fly that often (which gave him more spare time), and also because he had that very typical Northern-European look (Europe wasn't very tolerant back in the 70s, so countries in the North often preferred to use fair-skinned and blue-eyed models)).

He might be one of the most mysterious aviators ever, but as a person he was nothing but a boring family man who spent his time at the airport, at car races or at the church. Bowww-ring! 80.162.40.150 (talk) 21:24, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Bartelski[edit]

Why does Jan Bartelski redirect here? --Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû _(blah?) 16:49, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Batelski (or at least one man called Jan Bartelski) was a KLM pilot and and contemporary of Van Zanten. He wrote about the Tenerife Disaster in his book which is referenced here. I presume that is why... Obviously a page of his own would be more appropriate, since he was President of the International pilots association and a notable aeronautical author. SAHBfan (talk) 17:21, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]