Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 March 26

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March 26

legal age for...

I read the archived question about the "legal drinking age" and I was wondering a few things.

1.)being that the legal buying age is 21, if you're 21st is on sunday and you want to buy liquor the day before. Are you allowed?

2.) has anyone read/heard of any specific laws in the state of virginia that are irregular of other drinking laws in the rest of the united states. if so, help!?! I've been looking for them online and can't find them.

3.) establishments, once again in virginia, that have a 21+ policy for entering do so at their own will, right? it isn't illegal to have someone that is under 21 in a bar. it's illegal to serve and/or have someone intoxicated in said bar, correct?

4.) since the zero tolerance law was made, I was also pulled over and given an under-aged possession charge. I have court on the day before my 21st birthday (next week). the initial reason for being pulled over wasn't stated until the officer first gave the car a once over, then was able to find an expired sticker on the license plate. 1.) I did allow him to give me a breathalyzer test because I didn't think that he'd ticket me (he did). I blew under the legal limit for being ticketed for a DUI, however he decided to ticket me for under-aged possession.

1.) if I hadn't consented, what would have happened? 2.) even though I did, drinking wasn't the initial reason for my being pulled over as the officer told me that I was driving just fine. 3.) is there a way to get out of this without having to hire a lawyer and/or do ASAP and community service?

71.63.38.230 (talk) 00:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)Cimmaron

We don't give legal advice. Find more trustworthy hands to place yourself in, guy. Wrad (talk) 00:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

We don’t give legal ADVICE here. We do answer legal questions, which is what 1, 2, and 3 are. The last two we can’t help with however. --S.dedalus (talk) 01:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The answer to #1 is definitely no. I wonder if maybe you're referring to areas with blue laws, where it wouldn't be possible to buy alcohol on the Sunday itself, but I would still say the answer is certainly no. -Elmer Clark (talk) 06:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe that question 1 is related to the longstanding American common law principle that "a person attains a given age on the day before his corresponding birthday". So actually, it probably would be legal for you to buy alcohol the day before, but you might get to court before you meet anyone else who knows that. FiggyBee (talk) 06:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

You got a citation for the "longstanding American common law principle" that I've never heard of? Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 09:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, those born on 29 February have a modest head start, as many systems of law deem their birthday in non-leap years to be 28 February. Xn4 08:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Mexicans in the US

Of the Mexican population in the US, how much of them are immigrants and how much are autochthonous of some annexed territory? Mr.K. (talk) 02:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

• I don't have the numbers on hand, but I believe the majority of Mexican Americans are neither, that the largest group is probably children and grandchildren of immigrants.--Pharos (talk) 02:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, of course. There is still this possibility. It sounds quite plausible, by the way. Mr.K. (talk) 04:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

As for "autochthonous of some annexed territory", there were only a few areas populated by a relatively large number of Spanish speakers ca. 1836-1853 and included in the territories annexed by the U.S. -- mainly the city of San Antonio, the Rio Grande valley in south Texas, and northern New Mexico. I would doubt whether in 1848 most ancestors of most current-day Mexican-Americans were then living north of what is now the U.S.-Mexico border . AnonMoos (talk) 06:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I would also point out that, in New Mexico at least, the descendants of people who lived there before it was annexed by the United States do not identify and, I think, are not usually classified as Mexican or Mexican American. These people may be considered Latino or Hispanic. They typically identify as New Mexican or Spanish-American, but usually not as Mexican. In the views of many, they are no more Mexican than the Anglo-Americans are English nor than the Quebecois are French. Their ancestors were subjects of Mexico well over a hundred years ago, and then only at the periphery of Mexico and only for a couple of decades (after Mexico's independence from Spain). Marco polo (talk) 20:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Folk illnesses

I think this is more culture than science so I posted it here. Are there any other folk illnesses that only a certain culture gets, just curious? For example, it seems that only Filipinos suffer from Pasma while Bangungot sufferers seem to be concentrated in Japan, Thailand and the Philippines. --Lenticel ^(talk) 05:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Sickle cell is much more prevalent in sub-Saharan African and African-American populations than in the rest of the world's population, and Tay-Sachs disease is similarly overrepresented among Jews of Eastern European descent. Neither is 100% unique to those cultures, though, although there are certainly strong cultural connections between those groups and those diseases. -Elmer Clark (talk) 06:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

IANAD, but I am quite sure the question was about folk illnesses (specific medical conditions recognized by traditional medicine of the respective culture, but not by the modern medicine), and not about genetic disorders. Both Tay-Sachs and sickle-cell anemia are recessive genetic disorders, so two copies of the gene involved must be defective for the symptoms to emerge. Obviously, prevalence of marriages within a given culture or community increases the chance of this happening. As for non-genetic culture-specific illnesses of unclear etiology, there are conditions that are known from written tradition (like tzaraath) or historical texts (like Sudor anglicus) but not diagnosed as such by modern medicine. There are also conditions attributed by folk medicine to evil spirits or influences; these are religion- and culture-specific, of course. Please also note that we have a short article on Folk Illness that seems to stress the latter aspect. IANAD, so I will not expand it. Is there a doctor in the audience? Our article needs help! ;) . Cheers, --Dr Dima (talk) 07:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Zombies only exist in Haiti and its diaspora, because (some) Haitians believe in them. Similar chemical reactions in Japan are put down to the neurotoxic fugu fish. BrainyBabe (talk) 08:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. --Lenticel ^(talk) 08:00, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

How about Fan death? APL (talk) 13:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

How about the article on this subject: Culture-bound syndrome? --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 19:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps Amok could be included in this list? Ninebucks (talk) 03:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Koro is a contagious disease that you are at risk of catching just by knowing what it is. Kuru is somewhat harder to contract. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 16:13, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Windows

When were glass windows invented? --Carnildo (talk) 06:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

According to Guns, Germs and Steel (through Google Books), the Romans invented them around 1 AD. Beyond that I'm not even sure where to start looking for info. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

See Fleming, S. J., Roman Glass: reflections on cultural change (Philadelphia, 1999). He also dates the first glass window panes to the reign of Augustus and says they were contemporaneous with the first glass tiles. Xn4 08:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

...but in fifteenth-century England glazed frames were still so precious and rare that they were removed when not needed, and were inventoried (this is how we know) as part of a room's (re)moveable furniture. Penelope Eames in an early volume of Furniture History: the Journal of the Furniture History Society.--Wetman (talk) 22:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The Don Flows Home to the Sea

How accurate is Sholokhov's depiction of the Don Cossacks and their role in the Russian Civil War in his novel? Is there significant political bias? Yermolov (talk) 06:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Sholokhov's depiction of the Don Cossacks is amazing. He grew up in the Vyoshenskaya Stanitsa and most of the characters are based on people that he knew and who had fought in the Civil War. There is also no better depiction of the Vyoshenskaya uprising. He managed to show not only what they were fighting for, but also their indecision and rivalries. I lived in the Don region for a while and all the Cossacks I've met raved about the book. It's suprising how sympatheticaly they were portrayed for Soviet times. AllenHansen (talk) 12:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...compared with And Quiet Flows the Don I found The Don Flows Home to the Sea wooden and unconvincing. Clio the Muse (talk) 03:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

They are the same book! Sholokhov actualy wrote most of the second half a year or two before the first. 192.117.101.209 (talk) 21:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

One is obviously a continuation of the other, and I certainly read them as two separate volumes (in a Penguin Paperbacks edition). I can only speak of my personal reading, 192.117, one which drew greater value from part dealing with the events leading up to the Revolution of 1917, than from that dealing with the aftereffects in the Civil War. Perhaps his style, technique and insight improved with the 'prequel'? I can't say for certain. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, he said that he wished that he had rewritten the 'second' half. What had happened was that he started writing a story about the Kornilov uprising, then decided that in order to understand that you must know a thing or two about Cossack life, so he shelved the story and about a year later started on what we know as And Quiet Flows. Interestingly enough, in the early story the Melekhovs were minor characters. If you can read Russian, I've added a link to an online book which goes into great detail about this. AllenHansen (talk) 08:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it true that the best Guillotine blades were made by Gillette???

Or is that just marketing?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.122.28.76 (talk • contribs)

Please sign future edits but typing four tildes (~~~~) after your post. Where on earth did you hear that? The Company Gillette is named after King C. Gillette! = ) --Cameron (t/c) 11:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

You mean Gillette, the company founded in 1901? In the article on the Guillotine, it does mention that device was used for execution after 1901, but a Google search of Gillette +guillotine does not return any worthwhile results.--droptone (talk) 11:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The Gillette Company was named after its founder, King Camp Gillette, an American who invented an inexpensive disposable blade for the safety razor in the late 19th century. The guillotine was named after Dr. Joseph-Ignace Guillotin, a professor of anatomy at the facility of medicine in Paris, who proposed in 1789 that death sentences be executed by decapitation, employing "a machine that beheads painlessly". The blades made by The Gillette Company were very thin and quite unsuitable for decapitational use. There is no relation between the two.  --Lambiam 17:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

No and no. It could hardly be called marketing anyway. A bit like saying that the best weapons of mass destruction are made by General Atomics.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Mulatto - White and Black perspectives

Moved meta-discussion to talk page. -- APL (talk) 22:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Question about Niger

How does Niger regulate its [potentially dangerous] imports? (Barnstar for a speedy reply!) Scarian^{Call me Pat} 17:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's a list of import prohibitions.--Pharos (talk) 23:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The relevant authority would I think be the "Agence Nationale de Vérification de Conformité aux Normes (AVCN)", in English the "National Agency for Compliance Inspection". It's discussed here on a government website and this page has a brief description in English.--Pharos (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Kant's Categorical Imperative

Hi all read the article on the Categorical Imperative but one aspect of it is a bit too complex for me! I tried looking at it in simple English but that article doesn't describe any of the maxims and is really short. My question is, what does the third maxim 'Live in a Kingdom of ends' mean? Can anyone explain it simply please? I'm not that bright :( I-need-a-name-which-hasn't-been-taken-even-that-has-been-taken! (talk) 17:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

See Kingdom of Ends. IIRC, Kant believes you should always treat someone as an end, never as a means to an end; or in other words treat people in a way that could be made a universalizable principle. The Kingdom of Ends is the hypothetical state when people treat each other according to this maxim. 66.152.245.18 (talk) 19:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Marriage in the Canterbury Tales

The theme of power in marriage is the dominant theme in the Wife of Bath's Tale. Is this typical of Chaucer's view and can it be illustrated elsewhere in the Tales? Alisoun of Bath (talk) 19:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The best, and funnest, way to find out is by comparing the various stories!! AllenHansen (talk) 19:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The Clerk's Tale. Wrad (talk) 20:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The theme is handled in several of the tales, Allisoun. Reading through is, indeed, the best way to find the answer to your question. Clio the Muse (talk) 04:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Chaucer's Politics

Is anything known of Chaucer's political views? How did he respond, for example, to the Peasants' Revolt of 1381? Alisoun of Bath (talk) 19:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that his response to the revolt was recorded, but as a member of the near-elite and as a royal office holder, one would expect him to have been strongly opposed to the revolt. Marco polo (talk) 20:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

He mentions Wat Tyler in one of the Canterbury Tales. I forget which one... Wrad (talk) 20:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

not by name, according to searches I've done in TCT on Project Gutenberg and eChaucer. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's more subtle than that. I believe it's a pun on Wat/what or something. Wrad (talk) 23:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Found it. It's in the Nun's Priest's Tale and it's Jack Straw, not Wat Tyler. Sorry about that. Wrad (talk) 23:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I found this, doing a search for Chaucer's politics on google - "For work on political engagement, or the lack thereof, in Chaucer's life, see S. Sanderlin, "Chaucer and Ricardian Politics," Chaucer Review 22 (1988), 171-84, and Paul Strohm, "Politics and Poetics: Usk and Chaucer in the 1380s," in Literarv Practice and Social Change in Britain, 1380-1530, ed. Lee Patterson (Berkeley, 1990), pp. 83-112. Strohm's comparison with Usk is particularly illuminating, as it shows how Chaucer does not write for an explicit political purpose, as Usk does routinely. In this view, while Chaucer's politics may be reflected in his poetics, particularly in a constant emphasis on dialogue and plurality, he differs fundamentally from a poet like Usk who understands writing as a political tool."[1] --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

You will find one possible and one definite reference to the Peasants' Revolt in The Canterbury Tales. The possible reference comes in the Knight's Tale, where Saturn, in his planetary influence, lays claim to all sorts of disasters;

Myn is the stranglying and hangyng by the throte,

The murmure and the cherles rebellyng,

The groynynge, and the pryvee empoysonyng.

The definite reference comes in the Nun's Priest's Tale, the part where the fox has take Chauntecleer to carry him off to the woods, with the rest of the farm-yard in pursuit;

So hydous was the noyse-a, benedicitee!-

Certes, he Jakke Straw and his meynee

Ne mede nevere shoutes half so shrille

Whan that they wolden any Flemyng kille,

As thilke day was maad upon the fox.

Farmyard animals gone berserk: there is no reason to suppose that this was not Chaucer's own personal opinion of the Revolt. Clio the Muse (talk) 04:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Land Usage in U.S.

I am looking for information about what percentage of land in each of the U.S. states is used for various purposes, particularly farming. E.g., what percentage of the land in Ohio is farmland? (Absolute acreage is fine, too; I can divide.) Bipsbop (talk) 22:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

As in all things, google is your friend, turning up such sites as Land Use in the United States. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Bipsbop (talk) 23:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Agitate. Agitate, Agitate!

Frederick Douglass famously recommended this tactic for social change: Agitate!

In fact [www.cafepress.com/agitate T-shirts] are sold under this banner. I am perhaps daft but can not find any reference to his statement in the article. Adaptron (talk) 23:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The article has a quote "Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters." I can only guess that the factette has either been edited out of what is a long article, or has not yet made it in. The beauty of wikipedia is that, if you're informed on the subject, you can amend the article to include it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It's probably unnecessary to be included since it so well known. Anyone reading the article probably has already heard it. My only reason for wanting to include it and at the very top of the page is that it appears to be the most quoted saying and political position or direction attributed to him. It just strikes me as strange that it is not already there. Adaptron (talk) 02:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I would strongly disagree with that. I have heard of Frederick Douglass but I had never once heard of that quote before this question. Not everyone reading Wikipedia is a United States resident. Not every American reading Wikipedia is a university graduate. If it's well-known and attributed, it should be in his article. --NellieBly (talk) 14:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm an American and a university graduate, and I'd never heard that quote before.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 18:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Tagishsimon's quote is from Douglass's West India Emancipation Speech held in 1857. The famous "Agitate, agitate, agitate" is not a direct quote from any speech or text published by Douglass, but it is purported that he said this in 1895, decades after the West India Emancipation Speech but much in its spirit, in reply to a young student seeking his advice. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Where might I find both historical and recent commentary in regard to this advice, especially in connection with such events as the murder of Eve Carson. Adaptron (talk) 02:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

How is the murder of Eve Carson remotely connected with this topic?--droptone (talk) 11:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Lovette's comment? Adaptron (talk) 12:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

What comments? I cannot find any relevant comments.--droptone (talk) 12:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It may be a comment from Black Panther, Mumia Abu-Jamal.

Well, I can't help you on the murder of Eve Carson, but I did search for some more information on the quote.

Most online articles I found went with the student story, with variations in tonality: "When asked shortly before his death in 1895 what advice he would give to a young black starting out in life, Douglass replied firmly: "Agitate! Agitate! Agitate!" [2]. A book review uses the passive voice: "Shortly before his death, abolitionist Frederick Douglass (1818-1895) was asked what course black youths should follow in the face of continuing racism in this country. He replied, "Agitate! Agitate! Agitate!" [3]. The Public Interest had "Douglass continued till the end to act on the advice he is said to have given to a young man inquiring what he should do for his people: "agitate, agitate, agitate." [4] Here he "urged a black student to "Agitate! Agitate! Agitate!"] and here he "whispered" it "to a young follower".

But I also found this in The World & I: "Agitate, agitate, agitate!" With these words, Frederick Douglass exhorted a woman's suffrage meeting on February 20, 1895. After returning to Cedar Hill, he was dramatizing his speech to his second wife, Helen, when he suffered a fatal heart attack. It was just a week past his seventy-seventh birthday, or maybe it was his seventy-eighth. He wasn't quite sure." [5]. ---Sluzzelin talk 12:15, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Though i can't put an exact date to the slogan, it may have been borrowed from Daniel O'Connell's "three things I urge upon you, sons of Ireland: agitate, agitate, agitate!"—eric 16:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Would "borrowing" be called plagiarism in todays political climate? Adaptron (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

(Response to eric, not to Adaptron's queston which was inserted here later) That sounds very likely, see also a question from last June (and particularly Clio_the_Muse's answer) for the Douglass-O'Connell connection. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The phrase might have been suggested to O'Connell by a December 1828 letter from Henry Paget: "If you really expect success, agitate, agitate, agitate." The letter seems to have caused the then Lord Lieutenant of Ireland a bit of trouble with his government, our article states it led to his recall.—eric 17:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)