Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Will of God

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Views are split roughly between keeping outright or merging with divine providence. Since neither requires an administrator action, they can be done after this AfD closes. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:03, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Will of God[edit]

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This article began as a confused attempt at a disambiguation page, and has since morphed into... something else. Three of the cited sources are Christian self-help books; the only other source, quoted in the Deism section, is more or less irrelevant, except that it happens to use the phrase "will of God" in an unrelated context. I can't find any scholarly works on this general subject. There's much that can be said about more specific concepts like predestination, divine providence, argument from free will, etc, but "the will of God" can't really be discussed in general terms. Dan from A.P. (talk) 19:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. Dan from A.P. (talk) 19:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Dan from A.P. (talk) 19:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Dan from A.P. (talk) 19:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as an unencyclopedic jumble. XOR'easter (talk) 19:21, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the first mess left behind by Stevertigo nor the worst (c.f. User:Uncle G/The "dirty '-ista's"), but the fact that we are still cleaning up these messes roughly 20 years later is saddening. I do think, however, that there is enough scholarship on this to make at least a good stub from scratch.
Unfortunately, I am still collecting stuff at User talk:Drmies#February songs and probably won't have time to "Kerrrzappp!" this article, so I commend rewriting to someone else passing by. Kahn 2021 is at least one place to start, as it connects divine will to human will (philosophy) via the voluntarists. But Aquinas had a bit to say on the subject of divine will, too. I should probably say "a lot". Then you can find John Davenant on the subject, amongst many others.
- Kahn, Charles H. (2021). "Discovering the will: From Aristotle to Augustine". In Dillon, J. M.; Long, A. A. (eds.). The Question of Eclecticism: Studies in Later Greek Philosophy. Hellenistic Culture and Society. University of California Press. ISBN 9780520317604.
Uncle G (talk) 09:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most likely keep or merge somewhere like Divine providence. Clearly a thing which exists. Hyperbolick (talk) 01:16, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Could you specify which parts of the article you think could be merged into divine providence? Dan from A.P. (talk) 08:51, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - All of it. Yes, much needs sources or rewording, so add those notices as needed. Would go far to correct the page's excessive focus on variations within one religion. Hyperbolick (talk) 08:10, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 21:19, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into divine providence and redirect, as will be of use there imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:17, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Divine providence. Note that this will also require changing the redirect target for God's plan. To the extent that there is any "there" there, it is already covered adequately at the target article. The target name also has the benefit that this is the name that religious scholars use when talking about the subject. The suggestions in Uncle G's post above could be added to the target if necessary. Even if some-one is searching for the term from their Aquinas, they will still find the correct content through a redirect so that duplication is unnecessary. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Is "God's Plan" a neutral title? Know as a song title. Best avoid appearing to favor any especial religion if it is a worldwide minority view. Hyperbolick (talk) 16:21, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hyperbolick:, God's plan (small "p") already exists as a redirect to the article nominated here. I mentioned is not as an alternative title but to note that, if we do merge or redirect this article to Divine providence it will create a double redirect. There is also God's Plan (capital "P") that is a disambiguation page for a bunch of songs and some other theological concepts. That we have both is another argument for redirecting the small "p" article. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:15, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May have misread your point. Thought you intended to move this to that title. Hyperbolick (talk) 20:24, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This AfD was not properly transcluded to the new daily log at the last relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwaiiplayer (talk) 12:11, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. It is definitely a notable topic, but one with a lot of overlap with other pages. Plenty of work to do, and it may very well be merged elsewhere, but it could well remain as a WP:CONCEPTDAB. Ping User:BD2412 due to his post at Talk:Will_of_God, which people may well like to reply to there. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- That is a ten-year-old post, meaning that I have no recollection of having posted it. That said, I would generally agree that there should be an article at this title. I note that Thomas Aquinas has a chapter on the subject in his Summa Theologica, which is a point from which this can be expanded. I would not be quick to merge or redirect this, I think there is a question of "will" that is distinct from providence. BD2412 T 05:14, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  I find your logic is always excellent, and if it was a good idea for a CONCEPTDAB then, then it still is. It's king of an old topic. Ten years is not so long. There are no time limits here.
  
  I agree, this should not be quickly merged or redirect. At a minimum, it should be a lengthy level 2 section at the target, not just something that sounds similar. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:34, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Many thanks. I would also say that if you look at the state of the disambiguation page before I re-concepted it, the list was literally just a collection of links to concepts about God having a will, and not a proper disambiguation page at all. BD2412 T 06:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.