Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Second Perso-Turkic War

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Renaming proposals can be undertaken via normal editorial means on the talk page. Daniel (talk) 02:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second Perso-Turkic War[edit]

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As was recently demonstrated by Kansas Bear in the bottom of the talk page (and to a lesser degree by myself in the upper part of the talk page), there was no such thing as a "Second Perso-Turkic War".

The conflict described in this article (and further described in sources) was between the Sasanians and Hephthalites. The Turks (the suzerain of the Hephthalites) also took part in this, but that was a mere raid, not an actual war between the Sasanians and Turks. The conflict between the Sasanians and Hephthalites, war or not, does not seem to warrant having an article, and is already more or less mentioned in the relevant articles of Khosrow II and Smbat IV Bagratuni. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:26, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and Iran. Shellwood (talk) 10:40, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because it's already mentioned in a more relevant article and, as is, the article does not have enough sources to support the topic. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:08, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the quoted sources clearly define this as a raid, not a war. --Kansas Bear (talk) 13:40, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. raid, not a war is not a reason to delete and, I think, a rather academic distinction. Pinging @Ghirlandajo: he created Third Perso-Turkic War in 2007 and so presumably believes there was a second. I do not understand why Khosrow and Smbat are a more relevant article than, say, Sebeos or Hephthalites. But why repeat the same details over and over instead of just having an article on the event(s), whether a raid or a war, Perso-Turkic or Armeno-Hephthalite? Srnec (talk) 18:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I don't see the problem in having a war / raid (whatever it was) covered in a separate article. Nobody seems to dispute there was a notable military conflict. If the name of that conflict is not perfect, the article should be moved rather than deleted. Ghirla^-трёп- 19:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Do you have any suggestions for another name? --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Upon further review... The creator of the article misread his source and mis-dated the events. They occurred in 614–615 or 615–616 per Howard-Johnston's commentary in the English edition of Pseudo-Sebeos (p. 184). Howard-Johnston, Last Great War, p. xvii, calls it the "Turkish invasion of Iran" under the year 615 in his timeline. Srnec (talk) 05:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. We could use more knowledgeable participants here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:16, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the sources upon review appear sufficient to meet WP:GNG, though a merge to a most relevant article may be of preference.— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 04:00, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep HeliosSunGod (talk) 04:17, 30 December 2022 (UTC) [reply]
Comment I also support renaming here HeliosSunGod (talk) 04:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)sockstrike Girth Summit _(blether) 13:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC) [reply]
Keep and rename. The ⬡ Bestagon^[t][c] 04:19, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and rename per Ghirla Knightoftheswords281 (talk) 20:23, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and rename. Passes GNG Bruxton (talk) 23:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.