Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pia Toscano

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Yash^talk stalk 12:34, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pia Toscano[edit]

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Reached only ninth in a competition. No album released, very minor chart success. Fails the criteria under WP:MUSIC. When I do a search all am I getting is a lot of gossip and trivia, including her recent nuptials and tmz style reporting. Karst (talk) 14:57, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep While only getting to ninth, she has been subject to coverage from the media since Idol, and IMO passes WP:GNG. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 18:05, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I looked at that actually and WP:RS is very thin on the ground. So what media did you have in mind? Karst (talk) 23:12, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I can't go through all 147,000 news articles, but as far as reliable sources go, there's Billboard (several articles), Yahoo! News, and People. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 03:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Billboard article is a start. But that is only an EP. Did it chart or appear on a major label at all? The Yahoo! article narrates her American Idol experience - it really belongs in the article for that season. The People.com entry is a case in point really as it is the type of gossip style sources that I found while searching. Please note that the Google test does not indicate notability. Karst (talk) 12:30, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:33, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:33, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:33, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:33, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Non-notable singer. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There is sustained and regular news coverage going back over the last six years (eg: USA Today, MTV1 and MTV2, Billboard) that shows she is more than just the Pete Best of American Idol. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:53, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ritchie333: The first two articles are about her Idol exit? She gets a passing mention in the Aubrey O'Day article as a co-writer. The Billboard article was noted above. Which leaves pretty much with her Idol experience and the EP. Karst (talk) 11:01, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets the criteria of WP:MUSICBIO #2 (her debut single was released through Interscope Records and was #16 on a Billboard chart) and WP:MUSICBIO #10 (has performed original music on many TV shows including So You Think You Can Dance, So Random, Good Day NY, Good Day LA, Hallmark Home & Family, etc. Also meets WP:MUSICBIO #1 in that she has been the subject of many, many newspaper & magazine articles, radio interviews/performances, and television appearances. GaryBass (talk) 09:19, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@GaryBass: I see your point, but those Youtube links aren't exactly WP:RS. I acknowledged the minor chart success, but feel that falls into the Idol bracket if anything. And Heatseekers is hardly the Billboard 100. This still leaves me struggling to find good, solid sources that highlight her notability outside of a competition where she did not finish in the top 3. Karst (talk) 11:01, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Karst: Perhaps these links will be more to your liking: Hollywood Reporter, Fox LA, Hallmark Channel. Also here's some other links for her appearances on Perez Hilton, Hollywood Medium With Tyler Henry, Style Code Live and her performance in the LA musical For The Record: Scorsese GaryBass (talk) 20:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Gary, thanks for those sources. I'm afraid I am still scratching the back of my head with this one. Surely the Hollywood Reporter and Perez Hilton are gossip-style websites? The first one announced her appearance at So You Think You Can Dance where she performed her first single. It is directly linked to Idol. The Fox link has just two lines, one mentions a new single. The Hallmark link again mentions her recent Idol performance, as do the other TV appearances that you list. Now the last one is very interesting. Her involvement in that musical American Crime Requiem would be something very notable. But this is the problem with the article. The post Idol career involves a string of TV show appearances, minor chart successes with the first single and her involvement in the Idol tour. What follows then is some personal appearances, a solo album that never materialises, a co-write for a single that did not chart, failed auditions and a niche film. As with many of the Idol participants, they struggle to maintain a career. In the end this was one of the reasons why the 1/2/3 position of competitions was implemented. So when we look under the criteria of WP:MUSIC this continues to fail I'm afraid. Karst (talk) 11:41, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Karst: Your assertion seems to be that all of her notability is linked to Idol. So let's approach this from a different angle. The fact that she was in American Crime Requiem (for which she received rave reviews like this and this) alone should be enough to establish notability separate from Idol, since it is doubtful that the average Beverly Hills theatergoer is a fan or viewer of Idol. But she also has a whole other career as a national anthem singer. She is the official anthem singer of the Los Angeles Kings, has sung for both of their Stanley Cup Championship playoff runs in 2012 and 2014 and is considered the Kings' good luck charm. She was even a presenter at the 2014 NHL Awards and was featured on Fox Sports West's Kings Weekly. Again, none of this is linked to Idol in any way, because I can guarantee you that NHL hockey fans are not watching American Idol and in fact, most of them know her only as the Kings' anthem singer. If singers like Jim Cornelison and Rene Rancourt (who have zero notablity other than for singing the national anthem for the NHL) deserve their own article, then so does Pia. GaryBass (talk) 23:21, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Hollywood Reporter isn't a gossip website. It's a trade paper for the entertainment industry, like Variety (magazine). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 09:15, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins! 04:14, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable singer that passes WP:MUSICBIO#1, WP:MUSICBIO#2 and WP:GNG. Aspects (talk) 09:41, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.