Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim Ablancourt

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There are clearly divergent views about the set of sources presented here, and having looked at those sources, neither view is so unreasonable that it can simply be set aside. Given the healthy participation, I don't see relisting serving a purpose. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:06, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Ablancourt[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG. A few interviews and the usual database sources exist, but not much more. There's also this [1], but two paragraphs aren't enough to establish GNG. BilletsMauves^€500 18:24, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Africa, and France. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:01, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - He has sources such as [2], [3], [4], and [5] among many many other sources (many articles about him on clicanoo.re - over ten more not referenced here - are unacessable since clicanoo.re, Reunion's largest news source, updated its website which removed all articles from before 2020s which is why there articles are archived, also, having been a French Ligue 1 and Slovak and Reunion top flight player in the early 2000s, there are many offline sources as well). He played for AS Monaco FC, one of France's most successful and well known teams in French Ligue 1 which is regarded as one of worlds top 5 leagues, and played fully pro football in the Slovak and Reunion top flight. He is clearly significant figure in Reunion football, and one of few to ever play abroad. I look at the other Sports WikiProjects (or any WikiProject) and they don't nearly have an article deleted per day, let alone 30. By the time I finish writing this, another 30 will probably be deleted. Article may need improvement, but definitely not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 01:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The first three are interviews, so not independent. For the last one, see what I wrote in my rationale for deletion. BilletsMauves^€500 07:46, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Das osmnezz why do you keep posting non-policy arguments in AfD discussions? You know full well that playing professionally no longer contributes to notability. And it doesn't matter if a lot of football articles are nominated for deletion. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 08:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst we can rant about 30 GNG-failing articles being deleted every day, has anyone ever cared to rant about the number of GNG-failing permastubs that get created each day? I suspect that the number for the latter is significantly higher. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. There isn't enough substantial, secondary sourcing here to prove notability. But with the sources we have, I feel we are right below the borderline for this article to pass. Das osmnezz, you say there are many more sources, so is there one more substantial one that isn't based around an interview? If sop please provide it here. Or why not perform a HEY? You have the potential to change my vote with a little more quality sourcing. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 09:15, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MarchOfTheGreyhounds:, I spent a few hours and have performed a HEY by writing a lot more as well as adding more sources. Also, before today the page said he only made 1 appearance for AS Monaco FC but I corrected it since I found he actually made 8 appearances. On top of that, when I was making his Wikipedia page, clicanoo.re had 10-20 more articles about him but they are unacessable since clicanoo.re removed all articles from before 2020s, hence why the clicanoo.re articles on his page are archived. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 01:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's a really good HEY. But we're still right below the borderline. At this stage, I think he probably is notable, but I'm just struggling to find that last piece of coverage. As you say, there was probably something good on clicanoo.re but their site is very difficult to use. I wonder if we could find something archived, possible with the help of Wayback Machine? I shall continue looking and see what I can find. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 09:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find anything to change my !vote, so delete it is, unless anything additional shows up. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 19:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 09:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 09:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per MarchOfTheGreyhounds' analysis. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep clearly passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. myliptov is almost entirely quotes from Ablancourt: N. clicanoo 1 is almost pure interview, and what little is said about him by the interviewer is totally primary and therefore unusable: N. maxifoot is a routine recap with a passing mention: N. TLM S'En Foot has a blurb on him summarizing his prior sides, but is little more than proseified stats: N. clicanoo 2 is another interview with very little independent commentary: N. L'equipe is a namedrop: N. L'express is another namedrop: N. nouve l'obs is his name in a transaction list: N. Nothing approaching SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep notable a- meets GNG. Lightburst (talk) 16:22, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the article needs cleanup. But sources exist. Article should be tagged and improved. Bruxton (talk) 16:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources contain SIGCOV? JoelleJay (talk) 17:24, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify or delete - The only online coverage that appears to approach an in-depth level is the article from TLM S'En Foot which summarizes his (rather brief) European career. Perhaps there is more available somewhere, but I'm not seeing SIGCOV so it fails WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 15:42, 6 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - sorry, but, as stated by other users above, the sources reported above are not valid WP:SIGCOV to me. Being mentioned online is not an element of notability, if the sources are not deemed as independent, secondary and non-trivial. --Angelo (talk) 23:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the sources listed here are independent, non-trivial, and secondary. He is not merely mentioned online, also, having been a French Ligue 1 and Slovak and Reunion top flight player in the early 2000s, there are many offline sources as well. For example, many of the sources are archived and many articles about him on clicanoo.re - over 10 I saw when making his page years ago - are unaccessable since clicanoo.re updated its website which removed all articles from before 2020s. To the closer: keep in mind I performed a HEY through hours of vastly expanding the article with these sources as well as adding many sources and also keep in mind one of the non keep votes is a Weak Delete and another of the non keep votes is a Draftify. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.