Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jérôme Courtailler
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Seems to be consensus that the sourcing is sufficient. ansh666 07:42, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Jérôme Courtailler[edit]
- Jérôme Courtailler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Non-notable terrorist. The article is sourced and he is name-checked to The Guardian, so it's not a WP:G10 but I really don't feel we should have articles on these topics without a substantially higher level of sourcing. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:25, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 14:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 14:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 14:31, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Babymissfortune 14:31, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Keep per substantial role in allegedly "supplying the forged documents to the two men who assassinated Ahmed Shah Massoud in September 2001" and a planned attack on French embassy. Substantial coverage and multiple historically significant events. FloridaArmy (talk) 21:23, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- Keep
and remind Nom thata simple WP:BEFORE is always a good idea, in this case, the first thing that popped up would have been this New York Times exploration of Courtailler's path to jihad: Europe Fears Islamic Converts May Give Cover for Extremism. Plenty of WP:RS exists.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:35, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
- It's not a question of WP:BEFORE in this case (see User:Ritchie333/saves - I know all about WP:NOTCLEANUP - indeed I came across this article when declining an A7 tag on it), just I think a dedicated article for a terrorist is not a great idea (see WP:BLPCRIME) and I do not think there are detailed enough sources that an article that isn't basically a hit-piece can be written. Indeed, that NYT piece isn't really about him as such, it's about the problems of extremist radicalisation generally, and I have high standards for articles about living criminals. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:46, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- While I respect your scruples, this individual, convicted by an appellate court in the Netherlands in a case that was followed INDEPTH by the international press, and written up since not only by journalists, but in numerous books and in academic articles on jihadist recruitment and radicalization is far too notable to delete.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:54, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- It's not a question of WP:BEFORE in this case (see User:Ritchie333/saves - I know all about WP:NOTCLEANUP - indeed I came across this article when declining an A7 tag on it), just I think a dedicated article for a terrorist is not a great idea (see WP:BLPCRIME) and I do not think there are detailed enough sources that an article that isn't basically a hit-piece can be written. Indeed, that NYT piece isn't really about him as such, it's about the problems of extremist radicalisation generally, and I have high standards for articles about living criminals. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:46, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Deletion is not cleanup (and the article needed (was correct circa 2002!) cleanup and updating). Plenty of sources out there for this guy - books, journal articles, and coverage by top-notch newspapers.Icewhiz (talk) 13:49, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
- You are confusing "looking for sources and finding them insufficient" with "not bothering to look for sources". AGF, please. As a related point, what should the first sentence of the article be - "Jerôme Courtailler was born in Bonneville, France" doesn't tell us anything, "Jerôme Courtailler is a convicted terrorist" isn't strictly accurate, ""Jerôme Courtailler is a radical extremist jailed for attempting to blow up the US Embassy in France" is too long winded. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:51, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- I was responding to "
The article is sourced and he is name-checked to The Guardian, so it's not a WP:G10
" with the results of my BEFORE - I did not say anything regarding your due diligence prior to nomming other than disagreeing with the result. Regarding convicted terrorist - he was in an Al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan and convicted for terrorism charges, however WP:TERRORIST may apply. I think your third option "Jerôme Courtailler is a radical extremist jailed for attempting to blow up the US Embassy in France" is technically accurate and not overly long for a lead.Icewhiz (talk) 11:12, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- I was responding to "
- You are confusing "looking for sources and finding them insufficient" with "not bothering to look for sources". AGF, please. As a related point, what should the first sentence of the article be - "Jerôme Courtailler was born in Bonneville, France" doesn't tell us anything, "Jerôme Courtailler is a convicted terrorist" isn't strictly accurate, ""Jerôme Courtailler is a radical extremist jailed for attempting to blow up the US Embassy in France" is too long winded. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:51, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.