Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Armenian Americans in Los Angeles

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 01:05, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Armenian Americans in Los Angeles[edit]

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This article is poorly written, has only a few references and is simply redundant and should be deleted and its content be moved and integrated into Armenian_American#California.

Los Angeles is home to many other ethnic communities and none of them have separate articles about their history in the city. I don't see why Armenians should be an exception. A number of ethnic groups in the US have large communities is many cities should we create articles on each one? Երևանցի ^talk 17:28, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 July 1. —cyberbot I ^Notify_Online 17:41, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There are eight other articles for ethnic groups in Los Angeles. There are similar articles written for ethnic groups in New York City, Chicago, Baltimore, Omaha, and many other cities. This article is no exception. While the article has not been fully fleshed out, I don't see why it cannot be added to and improved. Solar-Wind (talk) 21:04, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep:

1. We have precedent to keep such things at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Hmong in Merced, California, and sources exist that have been written specifically about this ethnic community
- Sabagh, Georges, Mehdi Bozorgmehr, and Claudia Der-Martirosian. Subethnicity: Armenians in Los Angeles. Institute for Social Science Research, University of California, Los Angeles, 1990. Available in snippet form at Google Books.
- Hovanessian, Seboo. An Assimilative Profile of American-Armenians in Los Angeles. California State University, Northridge, 1993.
- Numerous articles in the Los Angeles Times
So "has only a few references" isn't an accurate assessment of the article.
2. In regards to "This article is poorly written" the correct response is that it can be made better.
3. "Los Angeles is home to many other ethnic communities and none of them have separate articles about their history in the city." - this statement is not correct (although I must add I have written most of those articles): Japanese in Los Angeles, Central Americans in Los Angeles, etc. (and because there is a prominent sidebar showing these articles, I am puzzled by that statement)

WhisperToMe (talk) 00:34, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I've added some additional LA times sources. With attribution I will now add some content that does exist at Armenian Americans (A note will be added at the end of the page, marking the revision) WhisperToMe (talk) 01:39, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you prefer quantity over quality then let it be. Just a little suggestion from me to you (which you can ignore), creating articles for the sake of creating articles is not what makes Wikipedia better. --Երևանցի ^talk 02:37, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't ignore suggestions. I respond to them and address them. Let's take a look:

1. It is absolutely possible to have a quality article on this topic. You can make a quality article with enough sources: two academic studies and numerous Los Angeles Times and other newspaper articles.
2. The mistaken belief that "this-and-this topic is not worthy of Wikipedia" has caused many Wikipedians to get frustrated and quit. I don't want to see that happen, and for their sake I establish articles like this and fight for their survival. I will be dead someday, and I want people to succeed me as editors, so I want to encourage as many potential Wikipedians to join as I can, and I do it by starting articles on new subjects so people know there is still work to do.
3. The public wants Wikipedia to be a vast, comprehensive resource and Wikipedia's raison d'etre, no, it's selling point is that it can be more vast and cover more things than a traditional encyclopedia.
4. Local information encouraged people to join Wikipedia. People care about their communities and their local lifestyles and culture. For that reason, I establish articles like this to encourage people to join.

It is important to also bolster existing articles and add quality; that can be done after articles are established. But this can be done without preventing people from starting articles on new topics. And in order to convince people to add to the quality of existing articles, you must let them write about what they want so they can be established on Wikipedia; that often means a brand new article on a new subject. In other words: if you want quality you must bring in quantities of topics to encourage people to join and contribute. Thank you.

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:01, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is also possible to create articles on almost every item on Earth. The way you're copy-pasting info into this article is unbelievable, considering that you're an admin and you've been here for 10 years. No wonder why most articles are low quality. Good luck to you in making quality articles. --Երևանցի ^talk 20:26, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1. What do you mean by "The way you're copy-pasting info into this article is unbelievable"? Explain?

I did import this block of text from Armenian American and this was attributed in the "Notes" section
I posted a mention of the genocide memorial, but this did not use the same text as in Armenian American - it just says it exists. This article was actually written independently of Armenian American. If you wish I can try to find a way to automatically compare the texts of both articles and show you this.

2. "It is also possible to create articles on almost every item on Earth." - In the cases of all of the article ideas that are possible, this is a good thing. You want to do this. You want to encourage this.

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:35, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:36, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:. Kindly see this book chapter:

Der-Martirosian, Claudia, Georges Sabagh, and Mehdi Bozorgmehr. "Subethnicity: Armenians in Los Angeles" (Chapter 11). In: Light, Ivan Huberta and Parminder Bhachu (editors). Immigration and Entrepreneurship: Culture, Capital, and Ethnic Networks. Transaction Publishers, year unstated. Start page: 243. ISBN 1412825938, 9781412825931.

I think this solves the question on whether this topic is notable for its own article. Don't you think so?

WhisperToMe (talk) 04:53, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: And this page on Google Books reveals there is a 1923 University of Southern California thesis written by Aram Yeretzian about the Armenians of Los Angeles. I don't know what level the thesis is but I want to find more information on it WhisperToMe (talk) 05:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Nominator offered no valid argument for deletion, and was apparently unaware that this kind of article already exists for multiple other ethnic groups in LA. This article is decently written and with sufficient sources to show notability. It is exactly parallel, even to the title, with the other articles in the template referenced by Solar-Wind. --MelanieN (talk) 15:09, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, no question about it! Dwscomet (talk) 05:23, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes GNG from sources showing in the footnotes. A nicely done piece — a real credit to Wikipedia. Carrite (talk) 16:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep (at least from how it is now), this is a perfectly fine article. For another precedent, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irish Americans in New York City. This is not to favor all such articles, but only the ones that pass notability by way of significant sourcing. Bearian (talk) 17:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.