Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four corners of the world (disambiguation)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. T. Canens (talk) 18:58, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Four corners of the world (disambiguation)[edit]

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Delete and redirect to Four continents: Four continents is the primary topic of this name. All incoming links mean the four continents. There is no article that would discuss the biblical four rivers as a group. See related discussion at User talk:Kwamikagami#Four corners of the world. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:22, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Finnusertop's summary is incorrect. At least one incoming link, that from Earth, is ambiguous, and it would be OR to link it to four continents. Even if Finnusertop can find a source that the symbol ⊕ represents Europe, Asia, Africa, and America, there are other references to the four corners of the world predate the discovery of America, where it would be incorrect to rd to 'four continents'. — kwami (talk) 01:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The link at Earth says "Four quadrants of the world" (which is a redirect to Four continents anyway) but is piped to point to Four corners of the world. Not is this only unintuitive use of piped links (WP:EGG) but it's also not an acceptable way to intentionally link to a disambiguation page (WP:INTDAB#When to link to a disambiguation page): You don't link to disambiguation pages if you are unsure — in that case it's probably better to leave the link out altogether. Notwithstanding the link from Earth, all others mean four continents which makes me conclude that this is the primary topic. I reiterate that there isn't even an article for the four rivers, so this disambiguation doesn't disambiguate between two topics.

According to Kwamikagami: "there are other references to the four corners of the world predate the discovery of America, where it would be incorrect to rd to 'four continents'". However, Wikipedia is not a dictionary and disambiguation pages in particular are not supposed to differentiate between uses (WP:DABDIC) but different target articles. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 12:09, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete Dabs are indexes of existing WP articles, not looking at what a phrase or word might possibly also refer to. There is only one WP article which mentions this phrase listed on this page, the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The link to Garden of Eden is invalid as the term is not mentioned on that page (see MOS:D). Boleyn (talk) 18:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I created four corners of the world, since I found a several mythological cosmologies that use this phrase and don't mean the four continents. — kwami (talk) 19:03, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Tajul muluk also does not mean the four continents. It seems likely that St. Maria Angelica also intends the biblical concept. That is, out of the three actual articles linking here, none of them mean the 'four continents'. — kwami (talk) 19:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Kwamikagami. If we manage to make an article of Four corners of the world, it's a welcome addition and answers the concerns you've presented. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 20:06, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:31, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ per speedy criterion WP:G6 and per WP:TWODABS, however it appears that nobody notified Niceguyedc, the dab page's creator, about this discussion, and I'm interested in why it was created in the first place. Without knowing the background, when I Google the phrase (with different combinations of words in quotes) I get almost exclusively results for the religious concept (mostly Judeo-Christian but there are others) of the four points of the earth, along with much scholarly commentary on just what the hell that means, but very few results for the Renaissance European view of the four-continent world. This strongly suggests that the primary topic for "four corners of the world" is Kwamikagami's article, not four continents. I agree that the four rivers and Garden of Eden are inappropriate partial-title matches for this dab, which leaves only two entries (TWODABS), and my effort shows that one is clearly the primary topic, so the disambiguation page doesn't need to exist. For users who type one while looking for the other, we have hatnotes. As for why our internal links primarily come from "four continents" topics, that's most likely due to nothing more than the page's historical use as a redirect, and shouldn't be an argument for supporting one primary topic over another. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 06:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ivanvector: I didn't create it as a disambiguation page. At the time, Four corners of the world was a disambiguation page (permalink), so I created this page as a redirect to the disambiguation page for any intentional links (per WP:INTDABLINK). I have not edited the page since I created it as a redirect. -Niceguyedc ^{Go Huskies!} 06:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 06:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Other uses are The Four Corners of the World, a Newsletter for Fair Trade Milwaukee, an organisation based in Washington Heights, Milwaukee.Four Corners of the World, an album by jazz / lounge musician Esquivel and "Four Corners Of The World", a song by Big Joe Williams. There's probably a few more. Mr Bill Truth (talk) 06:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, I have found 2 more. One is a record label, 4 Corners Of The World, that released recordings by Françoise Hardy, Gunter-chorus Kallmann and Raymond Le Fevre. And then there is a song "Four Corners Of The World" by Original Crew, a Jamaican group. Released on the Ranking Joe Music label. Mr Bill Truth (talk) 06:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All of these new additions fail WP:DABMENTION. There is no mention of the term in the linked articles and making any assertions regarding these on the disambiguation page amounts to WP:OR. older ≠ wiser 13:28, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, at least the Esquivel album and the Big Joe Williams song follow common dab conventions of listing not-separately-notable recordings and pointing to the artist. However the others are a stretch. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:34, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:25, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Given Mr Bill Truth's findings above the relist that there are other topics that could be added to this dab, I revise my !vote to keep and add the entries that fit on the page. I still disagree that four continents is the primary topic. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:34, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Searching the topic definitely doesn't seem to bring up much about "Four Continents." Most of the classical uses seem to refer to the four points of the compass, or the extremities of the world.--Savonneux (talk) 01:39, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.