Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ella German

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Lee Harvey Oswald. Stifle (talk) 15:41, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ella German[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Although this article is well written and sourced, there seems no evidence that Ella German is sufficiently notable for her own article. She would not pass the specific guidance in WP:BIO and there is nothing in the sources currently cited to indicate that WP:GNG are met either as she has apparently had no sustained coverage in her own right. In essence, the article depicts her as notable only because of her links to Oswald which raises obvious issues of WP:NOTINHERIT. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:54, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2020 July 27. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 15:11, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
merge to Lee Harvey Oswald.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:18, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belarus-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. While she may indeed have only become notable due to being related to someone precipitating one event, that particular event was profoundly damaging to the American psyche and relatively rare in American history. Had she been one of a string of girlfriends that had come and gone I would be more inclined to agree that she may not deserve her own article, but the fact is that she even appears in the Warren Commission’s report and if they felt she was notable enough for examination, I would concur. It is possible that this relationship had affected Oswald’s mental state in his decision to return to the United States and exploring that relationship deserves more than a byline in that article. I would also be very interested in seeing more existing references put into her article as the majority of them come from one or two books at present. LovelyLillith (talk) 08:13, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No-one has denied that the Kennedy assassination and Oswald are notable which is basically what we can deduce from the Warren Commission report. The question is whether Ella German independently meets the requirements in WP:GNG or WP:BIO in light of WP:NOTINHERIT. I'd also suggest WP:NOTEVERYTHING is relevant. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:28, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 16:27, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is really, oddly, detailed, but she is part of the story of one of the defining events of the 20th century. It transcends WP:NOTINHERIT. Caro7200 (talk) 17:31, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a WP:NOTIDONTLIKEIT argument. I'm interested to hear that the Kennedy assassination ranks alongside World War II. —Brigade Piron (talk) 19:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't at all, but I can't tell you what the above sounds like to you--only you can do that. And if the assassination of a major head of state is not a defining event, perhaps your list of the defining events of the 20th century includes only World Wars I and II... Caro7200 (talk) 20:39, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure we'd be having this discussion about an ex-girlfriend of the culprit of the Assassination of Olof Palme, but there is an obvious subjective quality to the most important events of the 20th century. There is still no reason to wave the long-established policy of WP:NOTINHERIT just because the INHERITOR is particularly noteworthy. It's the sort of argument that would permit every soldier of World War I and World War II to have their own WP biography. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I wrote, I don't think this is a case of WP:NOTINHERIT--this isn't an article about someone who briefly lived next door to Oswald, or something. She was written about in the Warren Commission report. A major writer, Norman Mailer, wrote about her, as did Vincent Bugliosi. She is written about in other RS books and articles, some of which appear in the references, some of which do not. Caro7200 (talk) 15:38, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Lee Harvey Oswald. WP:NINI She is "notable" only because of her connection to Oswald. // Timothy :: talk 14:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Lee Harvey Oswald. Notability is not conferred by association. KidAd (talk) 05:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, notability is not inherited, but there is clearly information here unrelated to Oswald and the Kennedy assassination. Devonian Wombat (talk) 08:03, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:VALINFO. Does the non-Oswald related information really allow her to pass WP:GNG or WP:BIO, that's the standard. —Brigade Piron (talk) 19:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the question of GNG is moot in this discussion, it’s a question of WP:NOTINHERITED and WP:BLP1E. Devonian Wombat (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since you raise WP:BLP1E, can you explain how you think the three criteria there are met? It seems pretty clear that (i) EG is only covered in the context of her relationship to Oswald, (ii) "the person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual" and (iii) EG's role in the Kennedy assassination was, to put it mildly, "not substantial". —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:21, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think the Keep votes clearly demonstrate this is a case of WP:BLP1E (not a single event in her life not associated with the assasination of Kennedy is mentioned) and WP:NOTINHERITED (If it wasn't for her connection to Oswald she would be unknown to history). The keep arguements are not based on guidelines and sources but are based on opinions and feelings. Merge it with Oswald. // Timothy :: talk 18:34, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Lee Harvey Oswald. This is absolutely a BLP1E issue. Ravenswing 23:07, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.