Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Duncan McLain

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Deryni novels. Useful content, if any, may be merged from the page history at editorial discretion. T. Canens (talk) 14:45, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Duncan McLain[edit]

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This does not establish notability. TTN (talk) 21:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. TTN (talk) 21:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article is nothing but plot summaries, and the only sources are the novels the character is from themselves. Searching around, I can find no sources for this character outside of fansites. 64.183.45.226 (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Profiled in Dragon Magazine (#078, October 1983, p. 40) as part of the Deryni adaptation for AD&D 1st edition. Jclemens (talk) 05:46, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Was the character described in a real world context in a non-trivial manner? If not, it's worthless. The adaptation of a work into another medium deserves mention on the article of the work. That a character appears in that adaptation is trivial. TTN (talk) 22:37, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree. Every time a notable fictional work references a previous independent fictional work, that contributes to the notability of the work so referenced. Spaceballs supports the notability of the original Planet of the Apes, for example. Jclemens (talk) 08:04, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - That is a cameo or reference, not an adaptation. Straight adaptations from one medium to another do not inherently add to a character's notability. If a book is adapted to a play, movie, and video game, that means nothing for the individual characters. It only opens up more possibility for reliable sources to talk about the characters. Materials talking about the adaptation do not count if they are only mentioning the character in the fictional context of the adaptation, worthless beyond confirming that said adaptation exists. Your source below simply has a small in-universe description of each character and character builds for them. That's not notability. It would be a great source for the main article, but not for those characters mentioned within. TTN (talk) 12:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Some information about what is in the Dragon article would be useful. Josh Milburn (talk) 20:58, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I won't link to copyrighted works but googling "Dragon 78 pdf" will get you a copy of the official PDF that looks like the one from the Dragon Magazine Archive (which I own); the issue is centered around Psionic powers, and includes new rules and a new character class, both Deryni-inspired, and a write-up of Deryni as a race in D&D, along with a listing of the major characters' D&D stats, from pp. 38-40, including McLain as the last one. Note that at the time the article was published, Kurtz had only published 6 Deryni novels. Jclemens (talk) 08:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. Jclemens (talk) 08:05, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Jclemens (talk) 08:05, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge....into "List of major characters in the Deryni series," a Wikipedia article that does not now exist. But List of minor characters in the Deryni series does exist, so an enterprising editor can make an article for the majors and put Duncan there. This character may be a big deal in the series, but has no claim to WP:GNG. See also MOS:FICT and WP:NCHAR (dormant), which both prescribe "out-of-universe" descriptions of fictional characters, something this article does not do. DonFB (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Comment of a banned user].
- That comment is both unhelpful and reliant upon inaccurate claims. If you have an argument in support of keeping the article which refers to the merits of the article/subject, please present it. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - This IP address seems to follow TTN's afds a lot.He even went so far as to compare the nominator to Jeffrey Dahmer. Longevitydude (talk) 22:04, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - [Comment of a banned user].
Keep. An element from a fictional series spanning a score of books and running for nearly 50 years. Even a cursory review of ISFDB listings would show a significant quantity of reviews and criticism of the series. There's even running, right now at tor.com, an extensive analysis of the series and its characters (more than a year of weekly installments, and not even half done!) by the notable writer/academic Judith Tarr, which itself cites commentary on the series by Ursula LeGuin. Since the nominator has admitted their practice of noncompliance with WP:BEFORE, their opinion should be given little or no weight. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 00:37, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your comment refers to the series, but does not address the actual subject of the article. How is it relevant?--Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 23:48, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to the Deryni_novels. Not important enough to stand alone. All the sources literally come from Katherine Kurtz. Longevitydude (talk) 22:01, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 13:46, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Deryni_novels. Excessively detailed plot summary sourced only to the fiction itself. Nothing worth merging. Reyk _YO! 16:31, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 15:32, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I see no indication that this character is independently notable. A character from any novel may become so, of course, but I find no indication either on this page or in a quick search with a couple of likely keywords that Duncan McLain has attained notability.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:26, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I agree with Jclemens that the Dragon source is actually a pretty good one. If another good third-party source could be identified, I would support keeping the article, but, right now, I'm leaning towards a merge. Josh Milburn (talk) 02:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, or redirect to an appropriate article. As in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/House of Haldane (fictional), this is only plot summary, no third-party sources, no indication of notability of this one character (as opposed to the series as a whole). Sandstein 12:51, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.