Talk:La sonnambula (disambiguation)

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Dance: Ballet

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Renaming as La sonnambula (disambiguation)[edit]

The opera is clearly primary so I have moved this back from La sonnambula to La sonnambula (disambiguation). --Klein zach 11:25, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Extra links in lines[edit]

Since I've already messed with this topic enough, before I make an edit formatting the page in line with the Manual of Style for disambiguation pages, I figured I would just clearly say what I'm doing here rather than just leaving it up to the edit summary (even though it is a relatively straightforward change, I am sure that my activity on pages of this term is a bit touchy). As described at MOS:DAB#Individual_entries, each entry on a disambiguation page should have only one blue link (to make it as easy as possible for readers to get to the article for which they are looking). This is why I am removing the excess blue links that have been added to the page. -- Natalya 18:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, I wasn't aware of the guideline. --Klein zach 22:02, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scribe's "libretto"[edit]

Surely ballets don't have librettos? My limited understanding of ballets (C19 ballets anyway) is that nobody speaks or sings, they just dance. Penguin/Viking says that what Scribe wrote was a scenario, which seems to be the correct word. --GuillaumeTell 21:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They were referred to as librettos, even though no one was singing. They were printed up as little books and given to the audience so they could follow the story in detail. There's more about it here, for example. Voceditenore (talk) 05:55, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, at least to historians of ballet. But is that usage crystal-clear to present-day users of Wikipedia? The libretto article has "and ballet" tacked on to a list of "opera, operetta, masque, oratorio and cantata, musical..." but this is preceded by "libretto is the text used in an extended musical work" and ballet is not otherwise mentioned in the article. It also says "A libretto is distinct from a synopsis or scenario of the plot, in that the libretto contains all the words and stage directions, while a synopsis summarizes the plot." All of this, except for the inclusion of ballet, is what I (and, I think, most people) mean when we use the word libretto, and when we use the word scenario or synopsis we are referring to a summary of the plot, which is what is contained in the little books handed out at ballet-pantomimes a long time ago. --GuillaumeTell 10:12, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, especially after taking a look at Libretto. I've amended the lede there to reflect this and copied this conversation to Talk:Libretto. Let me know what you think. Voceditenore (talk) 11:31, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. BTW, I noticed that the word "livret" appears eight times in the Google book that you cited, mostly in the phrase "livret de mise en scène". AFAICS, "livret" has various meanings, such as "passport" or "bank-book", but overall seems to mean "booklet". I'm just wondering whether the French normally used "livret" and not "libretto" for ballet synopses/scenarios?

Anyway, since we're in agreement, I've changed the first line on this dab page to read: "La sonnambula is a scenario by Eugène Scribe that was the basis for the following works:", and will make corresponding changes for the mis-titled page on the opera. --GuillaumeTell 16:02, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The French also use livret for an opera libretto see fr:Livret (musique) and one of the numerous examples at Gallica. Voceditenore (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a ballet livret - Says on the frontispiece:

"Gemma: ballet en deux actes et cinq tableaux / livret de M. Théophile Gautier; musique de M. le comte Gabrielli; chorégraphie de Mme Cerrito"

– Voceditenore (talk) 16:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most references to libretto are from an Italian or German point of view, it would be good to broaden that article to include the French 'livret' and the ballet usage (which I came across some time ago). Having said that, I think 'scenario' works well as a translation. --Klein zach 22:00, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]